Debbie talks with Jeff Hamaoui, Modern Elder Academy Co-founder and Chief Education and Innovation Officer, about getting through the “messy middle” (a real term) of transitions. This time of global transformation is also a time of existential transition for many of us. What comes next – and when? And how? Especially if you are in midlife or older.

The messy middle of any life transition is not easy, or comfortable, to get through. The old has ended but the new has not yet started or is not yet clear. 

If you’ve been listening to the podcast for a while you’ve heard her mention MEA and you might have listened to her interviews with founder Chip Conley. Debbie joined MEA’s online program, Navigating Midlife Transitions, feeling she needed dedicated time and space to reflect on – and make sense of – this pandemic “gap” year. Jeff’s guidance through the program was provocative, so she called him to dive a little deeper.

Jeff, and others who have studied transitions (most notably William Bridges), have identified the “messy middle” as the most challenging phase of a transition. Adopting a mindset of growth and curiosity can help you get through it. This applies equally to transitioning into midlife and beyond. What we used to call “getting old.”

Debbie and Jeff talk about:

• Why Jeff’s interest in transitions
• What is a modern elder
• The anatomy of a transition
• The concept of messy middles and how to get through them
• Why a growth mindset is important
• Pattern interruption – why you need to go to a place to rethink aging and midlife

At the end of the episode, listen for the sound of birdsong and trickling water as Debbie reports back from a recent real-life visit, with her husband Sam, to the MEA campus in Baja Sur, Mexico.

Mentioned in this episode or useful:

• Jeff Hamaoui Co-founder of MEA
• Modern Elder Academy in Baja California Sur, Mexico
• Chip Conley Founder of MEA
• Christine Sperber Co-founder of MEA
• Kari Henley Director, MEA Online
• Navigating Midlife Transitions, MEA’s Online Program (enrollment open now)
• Personal Values Online Test

• Wisdom at Work: the Making of a Modern Elder by Chip Conley (Currency 2018)
• Managing Transitions, 25th Anniversary Edition by William Bridges and Susan Bridges (Da Capo Lifelong Books 2017)
• Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck (Ballantine Books 2007)

Previous episodes you may like:

• Chip Conley on Growing Wise at Modern Elder Academy (Part 1): S1 – EP 6
• Four Different Decades on Transition and Reinvention (Part 2): S1 – EP 7
• Island Women Speak: Connection, Truth, and Storytelling in Maine: S1 – EP9
• Rene Colson Hudson on Pandemic Fatigue: S3 – EP18
• Island Women Speak About Their Pandemic Year:  S3 – EP19

Note from Debbie

I hope you enjoyed this podcast. Would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than sixty seconds, and it really makes a difference in attracting new listeners and upcoming guests. I might read your review on my next episode!

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Connect with me:

• Twitter: @debbieweil
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• LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/debbieweil
• Blog: gapyearaftersixty.com
• Email: [email protected]

– Debbie

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